Interview with Bookfunnel creator Damon Courtney, half 2 – How To Write the Future podcast, episode 124
“I need you to personal the connection together with your reader. It must be your web site they’re shopping for on, not mine. In order that they’re shopping for in your web site. They’re experiencing your course of.” – Damon Courtney
In “Interview with BookFunnel creator Damon Courtney, half 2” How To Write the Future podcast host, Beth Barany continues her interview with Damon Courtney the place he explains the significance of direct gross sales with BookFunnel, explains its options. Plus they focus on how conventional publishing is following the unbiased publishing within the realm of success. Damon additionally shares what’s subsequent for Bookfunnel!
You’ll want to hearken to half 1 of our dialog right here: https://writersfunzone.com/weblog/2024/10/21/interview-with-bookfunnel-creator-damon-courtney-part-1/
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Concerning the How To Write the Future podcast
The *How To Write The Future* podcast is for science fiction and fantasy writers who need to write optimistic futures and efficiently deliver these tales out into {the marketplace}. Hosted by Beth Barany, science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. We cowl suggestions for fiction writers. This podcast is for readers too if you happen to’re in any respect interested in the way forward for humanity.
This podcast is for you when you’ve got questions like:
– How do I create a plausible world for my science fiction story?
– How do I determine what’s not working if my story feels flat?
– How do I make my story extra fascinating and alive?
This podcast is for readers too if you happen to’re in any respect interested in the way forward for humanity.
ABOUT DAMON COURTNEY
Damon Courtney is the creator and CEO of BookFunnel, an e-book and audiobook supply service for authors and publishers. As a lifelong software program engineer, Damon is an professional in nearly all the pieces technical and might provide distinctive perception on publishing because it pertains to software program and expertise. He’s additionally the self-published creator of his very personal Fantasy trilogy and continues to spin tales in his head that he hopes to some day get round to writing.
Web site: https://bookfunnel.com
Transcript for Interview with Bookfunnel creator Damon Courtney, half 2 [H2]
BETH BARANY: Hey everybody, welcome to The way to Write the Future podcast. I’m your host Beth Barany. I’m a science fiction and fantasy author and a writing trainer and creativity coach. I’ve run this podcast as a result of I’m enthusiastic about how storytelling can rewrite the longer term for ourselves, for our readers, and sure, let’s simply say it for humanity. I consider that with our artistic instruments of writing what we imaginative and prescient by our phrases, we may also help make so.
[00:27] Half 2 Intro
BETH BARANY: So as we speak get pleasure from half two of my dialog with Damon about BookFunnel. And e-book advertising and marketing and be sure you hearken to half one. The place he instructed his story about how he bought began in BookFunnel.
For these of you watching or listening on YouTube, one thing. I used to be a bit of off in regards to the recording. So in a few of the components of this interview, in addition to partially one, I don’t present up on digital camera. Simply need to let you recognize.
[00:57] Direct Gross sales and Direct Gross sales Supply with BookFunnel
BETH BARANY: So, there we’re, we’re writers. Perhaps we’ve got some books out, possibly we’ve got a handful like me. I’ve three sequence out. I’m engaged on a brand new e-book in my sci-fi thriller sequence. And now I’ve bought some expertise beneath my belt, and I’m trying on the subsequent development, which has really been constructing for a very long time, which is direct gross sales.
I’ve been watching direct gross sales for a superb decade, figuring out that ultimately, hopefully, the tech would get higher. I attempted to do direct gross sales years in the past with my fantasy trilogy, and I used to be simply annoyed that I took it down. And, that exact vendor I nonetheless discover irritating to work with. So I’ve been watching this area and I do know that, and we had Russell Nohelty on, and his present is up already, speaking about the way forward for publishing. And a type of issues is direct gross sales –is turning into viable for folks. And I’ve been watching BookFunnel be in there. And I used to be simply telling my husband the opposite day, I’m like, look, I can have somebody purchase over right here, however then give them the BookFunnel hyperlink they usually can go and get it a BookFunnel and BookFunnel can deal with any tech points that they could have.
I used to be like so relieved. and so inform us extra about e-book gross sales, inform us how BookFunnel is working in that area. And any secret or not so secret, plans that you’ve as you go ahead.
DAMON COURTNEY: So we really launched the direct gross sales supply. So direct gross sales supply was the primary characteristic request that we bought every week after we’d opened our doorways.
And so it was guys, we simply bought right here. Like I spent nearly a yr of my life constructing BookFunnel to get it to the place it was. After which we launched it and folks had been like, are you able to do that? We launched in 2015 and it took two years earlier than we lastly launched direct gross sales.
In 2017, we knew that it wasn’t going to be a characteristic that each creator wanted. You both needed to be like tremendous unbiased, such as you simply yeah, I’m going to promote myself. otherwise you had sufficient of a fan base that you can really drive that visitors.
However right here we’re six years later. And within the final couple of years, that has been, a number of the expansion, a number of the authors which are becoming a member of BookFunnel are doing it in order that they will ship direct gross sales.
[02:55] the best way we constructed our system
DAMON COURTNEY: The best way we constructed our system was fairly merely primarily based on my expertise as an creator, which was, whenever you join BookFunnel and you’ve got an account with us, we don’t take a reduce of your gross sales. We’re there to ship the factor that we’re instructed to ship e-book, audiobook, bundles of ebooks, nonetheless you need to do it. However we’re not really a part of the sale. you promote on a platform like Shopify or Gumroad or Payhip or PayPal, or nonetheless you need to promote it.
We combine with 4 or 5 completely different platforms with extra on the best way. The thought is that you simply’re going to do the sale as a result of once more, I need you to personal the connection together with your reader. It must be your web site they’re shopping for on, not mine. In order that they’re shopping for in your web site. They’re experiencing your course of after which oh cool.
Now you completed the acquisition. Nice. BookFunnel Wish to step in and assist be sure to get the e-book to your Kindle. Or get your audiobook onto your iphone or no matter you’re going to do however we step in there on the finish, which implies that we’re not part of the sale. So the cash is all flowing to the creator, aside from BookFunnel has a subscription charge., However what we heard from most of our authors, as they began to arrange direct gross sales, was they already had a BookFunnel account.
In order that they had been already utilizing us to construct their record. They had been utilizing us for Kickstarter success, no matter. They had been already utilizing us for tons of different stuff. So it didn’t value something further to go and begin constructing a retailer and delivering gross sales, not less than not on the BookFunnel facet.
And we constructed it like that on function. As an engineer, as an creator, I didn’t really feel like that I deserve 30 % of your cash only for getting a e-book onto any person’s Kindle. I didn’t really feel that was a good value.
We’ll fully put aside how a lot of a piece Audible takes once they ship out your audiobooks. Once we initially constructed it, we had been simply speaking about eBooks. We didn’t launch audiobooks till about three years in the past. And so now. authors actually can–, you possibly can promote direct Once we discuss promoting direct, so most individuals think about like establishing their very own bookstore, proper?
[04:39] Value it to arrange your personal on-line bookstore?
DAMON COURTNEY: DamonJCourtney. com and also you go to this large bookstore and it’s Oh, that’s such a trouble. I don’t understand how I’m going to set all that up. I don’t have the bandwidth. I don’t have the time for that. And that’s true. And possibly you’re not prepared for that step. I might say if you happen to don’t have a reasonably first rate backlist, if you happen to don’t have not less than 5 – 6 books on the market, it’s in all probability not going to be value your time to undergo that effort and set that up.
However there are methods that you may begin to begin dipping your toes into promoting direct with out going by that route.
[05:06] Kickstarter as a direct gross sales route
DAMON COURTNEY: Kickstarter. Kickstarter is promoting direct. It’s utilizing a distinct platform, but it surely’s the identical factor. Brandon Sanderson set out and did his 4 books, and I’m a Sanderson tremendous fan, proper? Okay. So I backed that every one the best way to the highest I,not the highest. I didn’t get all that. I don’t like tchotchkes and swag, however the entire hardbacks, the attractive little leather-based books that he’s bought, they’re unbelievable. He put up a Kickstarter for 4 books that we didn’t know the titles of, we didn’t know who was in them, we didn’t know what they had been about, and no person cared, proper?
[05:33] Superfans
DAMON COURTNEY: Which is the type of fan that you simply really need as an creator. You need that fan who’s similar to, I don’t care what you’re going to publish, I’ll take it, proper? Which is, after I use the time period superfan, that may be a fan who’s going to purchase no matter you write and publish for the remainder of your life as a result of they love you that a lot.
So Kickstarter is a approach to promote direct. but it surely’s it’s one tiny little factor. You do one little Kickstarter, you perform a little marketing campaign and hopefully you get funded and all the pieces works out. And also you’re like, That was fairly good. That labored. However you don’t need to go do the entire retailer and construct the entire setup.
You may, we’ve got a number of authors that simply begin by dipping their toes in and simply establishing a bundle, proper? So once more, we’re speaking about when you’ve got one thing of a backlist.Should you’ve bought one or two or three books out, go write the subsequent e-book. I wouldn’t spend a number of time on this, however after getting some out, possibly you’ve bought an older trilogy that’s been sitting round.
[06:19] Bundle Your Books
DAMON COURTNEY: So quite than similar to, Oh, I’m going to go hog wild and construct my entire retailer, which for lots of authors is the tip recreation, however the brief model is, I’m going to take these three books, I’m going to bundle them up. And also you’ve both constructed a publication otherwise you possibly need to run some Fb adverts otherwise you’re going to strive one thing new.
And so that you say, Oh, I’m going to bundle up these three books. We see authors doing this lots with their, with their older backlist. You bundle up the three books, e-mail your present mailing record and say, Hey, I’m having a particular this weekend the place I’m promoting the primary three books, the primary trilogy that I ever revealed.
And a number of, I do know a number of you in all probability by no means learn it. I’m going to promote it for five, proper? And so that you’re not placing out a complete retailer. You’re simply sending them one hyperlink. You simply ship them a hyperlink within the e-mail. They click on on that. They will undergo, they will buy the trilogy. They cannot. You are able to do all of that with out having to actually get into constructing out a whole retailer of stuff.
I believe that the majority authors, many of the authors which are becoming a member of us there, that’s their, that’s the place they need to be, proper?
[00:07:15] Direct gross sales and Go vast
DAMON COURTNEY: They need to have: Damon J Courtney. com. They need to have their area and also you go to my area and you should purchase my books. And possibly you may as well discover them on Amazon and Kobo and different locations. We have now authors that kind of do each the place you go to their retailer and their retailer is the first place.
So whenever you click on on a e-book, the very first thing they’re going to say is add to cart. I bought an enormous button. It’s like shopping for from me is what I really need you to do. However if you happen to actually want, you may as well discover my books on Amazon and Kobo and Google Play and Apple Books and like placing all of the little, the opposite little icons down there.
And particularly with folks which are simply discovering you for the primary time, they will not be comfy sufficient to purchase straight out of your web site. They’re going to go and possibly learn you on Amazon or one thing like that, however your tremendous followers, oh, they completely will come on to you.
So BookFunnel solutions a whole lot of emails a day from readers, proper? We hear from readers on a regular basis. And what we’re listening to from the readers which are shopping for from our authors is that they love their authors. Like they love their authors greater than, I don’t care who publishes a e-book.
I observe Bane and Tor as a result of they’re fantasy publishers. I’m on Tor’s mailing record, however I don’t really care if Tor is the one who revealed it. I care, when Brandon put his Kickstarter out. I’ll get them straight from Brandon, proper? I care about my authors.
And your tremendous followers, they’re going to work the identical manner. The message we’re getting from them as nicely. I might quite the cash go on to the creator and, I don’t need that Jeff Bezos to get a reduce, no matter. I don’t. I don’t actually care what the messaging is, however for readers and for authors, direct promoting, I believe is once we discuss actually the way forward for publishing, I believe that’s, I believe it’s essentially the most indie factor that you are able to do, proper? There, there actually is nothing between you and the reader shopping for your e-book. The cash is simply going proper into your account.
BETH BARANY: Yeah, I’m so with you, Damon, and I’ve been doing what you’re doing. I’m really placing one e-book up, every week, or each time I ship out a publication, which is about two to 3 occasions a month, and I’m utilizing, I’ll throw it on the market, I’m utilizing kofi.com, Ok O F I. com, simply because it additionally has a donation characteristic, And I’m simply enjoying round. I do know there’s different platforms that I may mess around with, however I made a decision to… I like this one. So I’m simply digging in and, however I really like your concept of a bundle. I believe I’m going to strive that, on my fantasy trilogy The primary e-book got here out in 2011.
Yep. Yeah. So it’s been some time. I really like that you’re. All in and supporting the indie creator by direct gross sales, by record constructing.
[09:36] What’s subsequent for BookFunnel
BETH BARANY: Is there something coming across the nook, down the pike, that people who find themselves followers of BookFunnel or could take into account turning into customers of BookFunnel that we will be looking for?
DAMON COURTNEY: Our audiobooks are technically nonetheless in beta, as a result of I haven’t fairly completed writing the billing software program. That’s actually the brief model of it. And in order that has been actually thrilling for us as a result of we discuss the way forward for publishing and we will discuss AI and folks have their opinions on it and a few good and a few dangerous.
[10:04] Damon’s Tackle AI
DAMON COURTNEY: I see it as a device like anything. I’m a, I’m an engineer talking as somebody whose job could also be fully disappeared, and unalive by AI. The extra that I see it, the extra that I see that, there may be nonetheless a number of room for creativity, however a type of locations has it been advancing actually rapidly is AI narration of textual content, proper? Of fiction particularly. We’re a software program as a service. So so long as you, so long as you, the examine clears, our service is there to assist indie authors do no matter it’s that they need to do. And all of the instruments that we’ve constructed over time have actually been primarily based on that.
Authors had been telling us they wished to do direct gross sales and we stated, okay, I believe we will ship direct gross sales. Authors had been telling us they actually need to do audiobooks. And we stated, oh, I believe we will do this. And all of this stuff took a very long time to construct. I throw them on the market like they had been nothing, however they took years to construct.
However,all the pieces that we’ve got constructed has been as a result of indie authors wanted the instruments. And so far as I used to be involved, I didn’t need to simply give indie authors the instruments to match what conventional publishing may do. I wished us to be higher. I wished us to have the ability to do extra. We have now conventional publishers that use BookFunnel now as a result of they don’t have the instruments that we’ve got.
[11:10] We have now some higher instruments than conventional publishers
DAMON COURTNEY: We even have higher instruments than they do in a number of methods. Now they will get your paperback into an airport and Costco or no matter. However in the case of digital media, they’re nonetheless making an attempt to determine some of these things out. We have now authors on BookFunnels which are utilizing AI for narrating their audiobooks as a result of they don’t have the cash to truly pay. Narration is fairly costly on, even on a 80,000-word e-book, you’re a number of thousand {dollars} to get an audiobook narrated. Yeah.
[11:35] AI Narration
DAMON COURTNEY: And the AI narration has gotten, it’s, there’s an uncanny valley, proper? You may hear it and also you’re like, Oh, it’s a bit of bizarre. However the factor is that what I’m seeing is lots of people, they’re already listening to eBooks on their telephones, on their sensible gadgets with voiceover or with an audio companion, that kind of textual content to speech, proper?
These issues are horrible. Like so far as making an attempt to hearken to a e-book, he grabbed her across the waist, you recognize like they’re higher than they was however they’re they weren’t designed to learn fiction. They had been designed to simply learn textual content off a display and they also get you recognize, learn and skim they don’t get a number of the context.
So for a few of these authors they’re utilizing AI audio narration instruments to create primarily a greater model of, Hey, pay attention, if you happen to had been going to learn my e-book with a display reader, right here’s a greater model of that.
They usually’re promoting them on the similar value. Just like the AI narrated audiobook is $4.99. It’s the identical value as if you happen to purchased my e-book. However for lots of readers-
[12:33] Audio Listeners fall into 3 Camps
DAMON COURTNEY: What we’ve got discovered over the past three years of delivering audio is that audio listeners are falling into three camps.
There’s the camp that I’m in, which is that I don’t like audio in any respect, and I learn ebooks for all the pieces. There may be the audio first camp, which is, when you’ve got an audiobook, they’ll take that first, at all times. However they’ll nonetheless learn eBooks and paperbacks if essential, however they like audio. After which we’ve got the audio solely camp, which is that if your e-book isn’t an audio, you’re invisible to them.
And so the extra platforms, the extra codecs that we will have all of our books out and obtainable within the higher. We don’t have AI audio narration, to be clear, we’re not doing any of that stuff. however the extra authors which are entering into constructing out their direct gross sales, that is a type of issues the place they’re saying, Hey, if you happen to purchase direct from me, I’ve this model of an audiobook.
It’s narrated by AI. I didn’t get an expert narrator, however if you happen to actually need to have my e-book in audio trigger that’s simply what you like. Then you should purchase it for a similar $4.99 that I promote my e-book for.
[13:36] Audiobook gross sales instance – Joanna Penn
DAMON COURTNEY: And, Joanna Penn does this the place she releases her e-book after which she has two variations of her audiobook that she has the AI narrated model, which you should purchase for $4.99. After which there’s the model the place she has narrated it herself. And that’s the $14.99, like a full audiobook. And for the audio lovers, they’re going to take the one that provides them an actual efficiency by listening to any person. However for people who find themselves like, I don’t have 15 bucks, or I actually simply wished to benefit from the e-book on the drive, on the drive to the workplace daily, I’ll purchase the $5 AI model.
[14:06] DIY Direct Gross sales with BookFunnel’s assist
DAMON COURTNEY: Yeah. Once more, we didn’t construct that, however the instruments that we’ve constructed are all in place to permit authors to do these sorts of — As new issues come out, we have already got a number of these things in place to let authors experiment and take a look at these new issues. And that’s why I say: We’re beating the pants off of conventional publishing as a result of we’re at all times out in entrance and making an attempt new issues. After which they arrive alongside after.
Like TOR has their publication they usually have a as soon as a month freebie that they offer away, proper? Like a reader magnet. And it’s,it’s nice. I’ve picked up a number of new authors and that I fell in love with as a result of I attempted that, that free e-book TOR was providing.
Nevertheless it’s simply humorous that they began doing that a couple of years in the past after the indies had been doing it for nearly near a decade now, proper? so the instruments that we’ve got on the market are actually good. And I really like seeing the best way that authors are on the market experimenting with what they will do with all the pieces that we’ve got as we speak.
BETH BARANY: That’s so great. I actually love what you’re doing and I might simply like to encourage everybody to take a look at BookFunnel. com, see if it matches your wants as an creator. And, I need to have you ever again, Damon, when you’ve got the subsequent new large factor. I believe I initiated this dialog as a result of I noticed I believe that audio was coming.
So I’m actually glad to be taught extra about that. Now I’m inspired to experiment with that some extra. yeah. And I believe we’re going to wrap it up right here. So thanks. Thanks a lot for approaching How To Write The Future.
DAMON COURTNEY: Thanks for having me. I had such a superb time.
BETH BARANY: Thanks.
Thanks for listening to half two of my dialog with BookFunnel creator, and founder, Damon Courtney. I hope you loved it and be sure you hearken to half one if you happen to haven’t already. Additionally, when you’ve got questions on the right way to construct your record as an creator, come discuss to me. I provide teaching and consulting for authors in that space as nicely. In fact specializing in science fiction and fantasy. All proper.
That’s it for this week, everybody.
Write lengthy and prosper.
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Beth Barany teaches science fiction and fantasy novelists the right way to write, edit, and publish their books as a coach, trainer, guide, and developmental editor. She’s an award-winning fantasy and science fiction novelist and runs the podcast, “How To Write The Future.”
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