Interview with Bookfunnel creator Damon Courtney, half 1 – How To Write the Future podcast, episode 123
“I set out actually simply to jot down myself a set of directions that I may give to readers who joined my listing. And ended up constructing BookFunnel.” – Damon Courtney
On this How To Write the Future podcast episode, “Interview with Bookfunnel creator Damon Courtney” host, Beth Barany interviews Bookfunnel creator Damon Courtney the place Damon shares the inspiration behind creating the creator service and why authors want their very own mailing listing. Collectively they talk about the numerous useful options the platform has and Beth shares why she has been a long-time buyer.
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Concerning the How To Write the Future podcast
The *How To Write The Future* podcast is for science fiction and fantasy writers who wish to write optimistic futures and efficiently carry these tales out into {the marketplace}. Hosted by Beth Barany, science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. We cowl ideas for fiction writers. This podcast is for readers too in the event you’re in any respect interested by the way forward for humanity.
This podcast is for you you probably have questions like:
– How do I create a plausible world for my science fiction story?
– How do I determine what’s not working if my story feels flat?
– How do I make my story extra fascinating and alive?
This podcast is for readers too in the event you’re in any respect interested by the way forward for humanity.
ABOUT DAMON COURTNEY
Damon Courtney is the creator and CEO of BookFunnel, an e-book and audiobook supply service for authors and publishers. As a lifelong software program engineer, Damon is an skilled in nearly the whole lot technical and might provide distinctive perception on publishing because it pertains to software program and expertise. He’s additionally the self-published creator of his very personal Fantasy trilogy and continues to spin tales in his head that he hopes to some day get round to writing.
Web site: https://bookfunnel.com
Transcript for Interview with Damon Courtney
Hey everybody, welcome to How you can Write the Future podcast. I’m your host Beth Barany. I’m a science fiction and fantasy author and a writing trainer and creativity coach. I’ve run this podcast as a result of I’m enthusiastic about how storytelling can rewrite the longer term for ourselves, for our readers, and sure, let’s simply say it for humanity. I consider that with our artistic instruments of writing what we imaginative and prescient by means of our phrases, we may also help make so.
BETH BARANY: So at this time I’ve a particular visitor with me, Damon Courtney, who runs BookFunnel. And Damon, I’m so excited to have you ever right here at this time with us. Welcome.
DAMON COURTNEY: Thanks for having me.
I’m excited to be right here.
BETH BARANY: Nice. So at this time we’re gonna speak about listing constructing, electronic mail advertising, direct gross sales and who is aware of what will even come out as a result of we’re artistic folks. So Damon, why don’t you introduce your self to our listeners? And I’ll simply say, I’m a consumer, a heavy consumer of BookFunnel. I adore it a lot.
I’ve been utilizing it for a couple of years now. So has my husband. And we even have a pen title that we run collectively. In order that’s three creator names that we’re utilizing. I exploit it a lot and I actually recognize all of the work you’ve performed to create it. And so I can inform people that you just run BookFunnel and please inform us extra about your self.
[00:01:16] Damon Introduces Himself and Tells how he began BookFunnel
DAMON COURTNEY: That’s superior. Which means we’ll have some actually good in depth questions trigger it gained’t be floor stuff. So I, I really began on this planet of self publishing by self publishing my very own fantasy trilogy. So I’m an epic fantasy reader. dabble in sci fi, a little bit bit as we do,however primarily epic fantasy.
And again in 2011, when self publishing was actually simply getting began, I learn a self revealed ebook that turned out to be actually superb and realized about this. After which instantly, dived in and realized this entire world of self publishing and determined, I may do this.
I’ve all the time secretly needed to. I’m the eternally dungeon grasp of my group and have been for like 30 years. And so I inform tales on a regular basis, whether or not it’s simply not really typing them down. So I revealed a fantasy trilogy. And, as I did that, I began doing my very own listing constructing.
This was again in 2013, and I used to be studying all the– a few of them are nonetheless round– Joanna Penn and Mark Dawson that had been nonetheless round at this time and others who aren’t anymore a lot, however studying all of their blogs and studying, the method. So I made the error of writing the books and never pondering in any respect about how I’d market them or promote them, which suggests they mainly didn’t promote in any respect. However as soon as I began trying into that, I favored this concept of listing constructing. I really like the concept, as an indie creator, they’re like, wow, I can really attain out and simply discuss on to my readers, proper? I don’t need to have someone, some intermediary in between.
However the prevailing knowledge on the time, which is actually remains to be fairly prevalent at this time was that, oh, you need to have some form of a a cookie, which we later come to name a Reader Magnet, which was a brief story or a novella or one thing shorter in size that you could say, Hey, join my listing and and I’ll provide you with this free factor after which, hopefully you’ll like that and also you’ll go on and skim my books, proper?
Advertising, promoting corporations have used it eternally as a loss chief, a factor that they disclose to get you within the door or no matter.
And, I assumed, that’s an incredible thought.So I sat down to jot down a 2,000-word brief story and ended up with a 25,000-word novella as a result of I’m an epic fantasy creator and we are able to’t shut up.
And ultimately, I actually favored it. And I assumed, okay, nice. Now I received this factor. I’m going to go construct my listing. How do I get the factor to folks?
And, it seems. There wasn’t a very good reply for that. I’m a techie man. So it it was for me with the ability to ship it to my Kindle on the time appeared like a reasonably straightforward course of.
However having gone by means of it, I assumed, I don’t know that everyone may really determine this out. And so I set out actually simply to jot down myself a set of directions that I may give to readers who joined my listing. After which, Oh, right here’s the way you get it to your Kindle and your iPhone and no matter else.
And ended up constructing BookFunnel. It actually took place as a result of I wanted it first and I’ve been a software program engineer my entire life. And I really consider like the most effective software program on this planet comes from individuals who had been scratching their very own itch first. I feel the identical factor about books.
As self revealed authors, I do know that the books that I began publishing had been the books that I wasn’t discovering in conventional publishing again in 2011. When Sport of Thrones hit in 1994. fantasy publishers determined no person needed heroes with good intentions anymore. They needed murderers and people who had been like darkish antiheroes, which is nice.
I like a few of these books rather a lot, however I nonetheless, I’m an optimist, I’m a excessive positivity. My heroes don’t all the time need to do the best factor, however ultimately, I’ve to know that they’re going to show round and do what is correct. And so loads of that wasn’t on the market and that was the books that I began writing.
I used to be like, if no person else goes to jot down it, I suppose I’ll simply go write it myself. and that’s the place BookFunnel was born from.
BETH BARANY: Wow, that’s so nice. So we get a little bit bit about your background as a software program engineer, fantasy author, which by the best way, additionally I’ve written a younger grownup journey fantasy trilogy that can proceed.
That’s nice. And to scratch your personal itch, that’s the way you constructed BookFunnel. That, that absolutely is sensible. and also you had the abilities and the power to do it. That’s fabulous.
[00:04:55] Why authors have to have their very own listing
BETH BARANY: So for writers who’re simply beginning out, do you wish to discuss a little bit bit concerning the significance of why authors have to have their very own listing?
And I nonetheless get this query at this time, exhausting to consider, however I nonetheless get it. So let’s discuss to a science fiction, fantasy author, any fiction author who’s placing out their first ebook, or quickly, quickly might be placing out their first ebook, or already has, they usually’re like, oh no, now what? They usually perhaps don’t see the significance of getting their very own listing as a result of, oh my gosh, there’s all this social media.
What would you say to them?
DAMON COURTNEY: So the very first thing that I hear rather a lot is, and I’ll put myself into this camp, which is, I hate being on folks’s mailing lists, due to this fact I don’t need one. and that’s a wonderfully legitimate factor to say, besides that you’re not your buyer, you’re not your reader.
And even having stated that, there are authors that I’m a brilliant fan of, proper? So I don’t observe tons of authors’ mailing lists. However the authors that I’m a brilliant fan of, I don’t wish to miss after they have a brand new ebook out. I usually have discovered that a lot of the instruments which might be on the market on this planet that may notify you when a brand new ebook is accessible will not be superb.
Like even whenever you observe authors on Amazon, Amazon gained’t inform you when that creator has a brand new ebook out until they really feel prefer it and resolve that they could inform you 4 weeks later, I don’t wish to know 4 weeks later, I wish to know now, and the easiest way to do this is most authors at this time, particularly within the self publishing world, they’ve their very own listing.
Now, the explanation that having your personal listing is necessary. Social media is incredible. It’s allowed us to succeed in folks in a means that we by no means have earlier than. And you need to completely be doing that in no matter means makes you comfy. I’m not an enormous social media man. So for me, that’s not one thing that I need.
However the largest motive that you just wish to hold your personal listing is these platforms will and have already got modified the principles of the sport. They modified them on a regular basis. Was in the event you had a bunch on Fb and also you despatched a, a message to the group, all people within the group would get the message. After which Fb determined, no, solely 10 % of the folks within the group get the message.
And for 20 {dollars}, we’ll ship it to all people else within the group. So it turns into like an extortion racket. Whereas you probably have, after which, I’ve seen it occur. I see it occur each week. Someone’s Fb web page will get closed. They received an electronic mail and Fb says, you seem like you’re doing one thing squirrely they usually haven’t, they’ve performed nothing.
And but growth, their cage is closed. You’ll be able to go and argue. Typically you win. Typically you don’t. And now that group that you just constructed, you, you want, say you construct a fan group on Fb and in the event you like Fb and your followers are there. You must have one, however you must also have their electronic mail handle in order that if any of those different platforms shut you out, nobody can take away the e-mail handle and your potential to contact that reader immediately. And that’s the reason I feel it’s so necessary.
To me, it’s simply the spirit of being indie, proper? There really is nobody between you and speaking to your readers, besides sending out an electronic mail, which is all the time going to be an open system the place you possibly can ship issues to folks. And the less limitations between you and constructing these relationships together with your readers, the higher, so far as I’m involved.
BETH BARANY: So properly stated, and I couldn’t agree extra. I’ve been constructing my electronic mail listing as an expert and as an creator as quickly as I may, proper from the start. As quickly as I knew, I felt assured saying, I’ve a ebook popping out, or hey, I assist writers. So I, I’m undoubtedly in your camp.
[00:08:11] What’s BookFunnel?
BETH BARANY: Let’s inform the world, let’s inform folks what’s BookFunnel particularly.
a brand new creator for a really small quantity, I feel it was, the Fundamental is like 20 a yr, proper? Yeah. Can join and have a BookFunnel account. So how does that match into listing constructing?
DAMON COURTNEY: So the shortest model is,I used to say the BookFunnel, like we ship eBooks exterior of the shops and now we do eBooks and audiobooks and we do every kind of issues.
We simply handed, really at this time, October twenty third, was the day we opened our doorways eight years in the past. That is now eight years that we’ve been in enterprise and we’ve constructed loads of issues since then. That is BookFunnel’s birthday at this time. So yeah. It’s actually cool. It’s actually thrilling that we’ve been round that lengthy and we’ve continued to develop. So the brief model of what BookFunnel is at its core is we ship eBooks and audiobooks on to readers exterior of the standard retailer system, wherever you possibly can consider the place you would possibly wish to use that.
So I advised the story. After I initially constructed it, I used to be constructing my. mailing listing, my e-newsletter, the 2 phrases are interchangeable, however I’m constructing my mailing listing. And I had a novella that I needed to disclose to folks whenever you joined my listing. And, again within the day, folks would simply electronic mail PDFs and EPUBs and MOBIs and simply electronic mail all that stuff round. And readers had been simply anticipated to determine all this out on their very own.
So BookFunnel, actually, at its core, what I began with was simply serving to readers get the factor that they received, the PDF or the EPUB, no matter it was, no matter format, and get it to the machine that they learn on.
So I wish to say that BookFunnel is platform agnostic. Let’s say you needed to only, as a easy factor, you needed to reward a replica of your ebook, of your e-book to some good friend, otherwise you wish to, hey, I’ll ship you a replica.
You are able to do that on Amazon. You’ll be able to go to Amazon and you should purchase a replica as a present, but it surely doesn’t actually really purchase a replica of that e-book as a present. It really simply creates a present card for the quantity of that e-book. After which in the event that they resolve to make use of it to purchase a bag of Cheetos, then, they’re not really going to get your ebook.
After which after all you’re relying on the truth that both they’ve a Kindle machine or they already learn within the Kindle app or they’re on Amazon.
Now, Amazon’s the largest retailer on this planet. In order that’s not essentially a foul assumption, however you don’t actually know, proper?
And so in the event you ship a ebook by means of BookFunnel, which we’ve a lot of completely different options, however the easiest factor, you ship a ebook by means of BookFunnel, BookFunnel doesn’t care what machine they’ve on the opposite facet.
In the event that they’ve received a Kobo, they’ve received a Barnes and Noble Nook. In the event that they’ve received an previous Nook pill, in the event that they’ve received a BlackBerry, we nonetheless see now, I suppose we don’t see BlackBerrys anymore. However as much as a few years in the past, we really did see them. BookFunnel goes to assist them get the ebook onto their machine.
Now we have a lot of completely different ways in which work. After which if they’ve any bother in any respect, they will contact our assist. And our crew is properly versed in all of those units and precisely tips on how to get a ebook to them. And now that features audio books as properly. So whenever you’re speaking about listing constructing– So you possibly can go about it. Oh, I’m going to have this listing and I’m going to place this, the hyperlink to the again at the back of my books. And I’m not going to provide away something. I’m not going to provide them a brief story or any of that form of stuff. In the event that they wish to be a part of, then they’ve to actually wish to be a part of and you’ll construct an inventory that means, proper?
Yay.
It will take a really very long time and it is going to be a really huge slog as a result of, you’re asking someone to be a brilliant fan from the very starting, slightly than– Anyone who’s in advertising and I’ll say my background is in engineering, it isn’t in advertising, however you run an organization and also you begin to study rather a lot about advertising. And there’s a journey that readers need to take and that’s, Oh, I discover a new creator, I learn their ebook and I’m going, Hey, that was fairly good, proper?
I’m really studying a brand new creator proper now. And I learn the primary ebook, I used to be like, Oh, that’s actually good. Oh, I’ll choose up the second ebook within the sequence. Now, the second ebook within the sequence was even higher. I’ll say like the primary ebook I feel was the primary ebook he ever wrote. And I’m cautious of that.
I’m a little bit extra forgiving after I know that’s your first one. Trigger I do know my first one was not my finest. So so long as I like your characters and I’m seeing some world constructing once more, fantasy. If I’m seeing all of the hallmarks of that is, it’s a little bit tough on the perimeters, but it surely’s actually good.
By the point I learn the second ebook, I actually favored it. Now I’m into the third ebook and I’m a brilliant fan, proper?
So now could be the time after I completely would be a part of your listing simply to know when the subsequent ebook goes to return out, however anticipating persons are going to get there with out main them a little bit bit is– You’re going to get some, proper? There might be some who simply love your stuff. They usually’re like, Oh my God, I can’t wait to join your listing. It’s going to be a little bit bit simpler in the event you provide them a cookie. If any of your authors have youngsters, you already know that, you possibly can all the time get a little bit bit extra motion with some cookies.
[00:12:27] Different Guide Advertising Instruments
BETH BARANY: Completely. That’s nice. And simply to– There may be one other means. I used to provide away books by means of Smashwords, but it surely was a little bit more durable. I needed to generate the coupon and I needed to soar by means of some hoops after which perhaps clarify a little bit bit. After which Smashwords allowed, and I feel nonetheless permits, you to obtain completely different codecs in the event you, the creator, have uploaded all of the codecs, however they don’t present buyer assist.
And as quickly as I noticed that you just, that BookFunnel gives buyer assist, I used to be so comfortable. I used to be like, oh, like a weight was off my shoulders and it was simpler to provide away books. So your system made it simpler. After which there’s one other vendor on the market that can let folks know of a brand new ebook, and that’s BookBub.
So clearly we are able to use BookBub, however that’s separate. That’s not our platform, it’s not our listing, however it’s a fantastic device, and I like to recommend all authors add it to their advertising package. Ah, I simply needed to throw that on the market. Individuals are pondering of all of the other ways to let the world know that they’ve a brand new ebook coming.
DAMON COURTNEY: Yeah. And Goodreads remains to be round.It may be one thing of a dumpster hearth, however prefer it’s nonetheless round and it nonetheless works. And in the event you do submit when you might have a brand new ebook out on Goodreads, folks which might be following you’ll get a notification that you’ve a brand new ebook out. It’s once more, I’m not pooh poohing social media or any of those.
The truth is, we must be all of those instruments. You must completely be on BookBub. You ought to be on Goodreads. You ought to be wherever the place readers is perhaps trying since you don’t know the place these readers are going to return from. The creator that I’m studying proper now is definitely somebody that I’ve identified that I’ve seen met at conferences over the past couple of years.
I knew he wrote fantasy. By no means actually thought a lot about it like, oh, that’s cool. That’s nice I’m, I really like fantasy, proper? After which after I was getting on the aircraft to fly dwelling from the Novelist Inc. The NINC Convention in Florida simply final month, I used to be really sitting– so, three of us. There have been three authors that had been flying dwelling to houston me and two different authors that I had identified, and I really received the seat subsequent to one in all them and I stated Hey, what are you studying?
He’s oh I’m really studying Andrew’s ebook and he gave me the title. I used to be like, oh actually is it good? He stated Yeah, it’s actually strong. So I grabbed the ebook and I began studying it on the aircraft. Such as you don’t know the place your readers are going to return from. So the extra locations that you could be, that’s nice.
However finally, irrespective of the place they begin their journey, irrespective of how they found you. And that might be, they learn your ebook, they picked up a replica in KU, noticed your ebook in some free promo on FreeBooksy, no matter. However after they begin, because of this BookFunnel known as BookFunnel–
However irrespective of how they received into the highest of the funnel, you wish to guarantee that after they get all the way down to the underside, they’re getting on to a factor that you’ve management over. Typically, that’s going to be a mailing listing. Who is aware of? There is perhaps different instruments that come round sometime that make that higher or do it differently.
However finally you need to have the ability to talk immediately together with your readers with out another person telling you, no, you possibly can’t do this. BookBub can simply resolve, we don’t wish to ship these emails out anymore. It’s an excessive amount of problem or Goodreads says, yeah, no, we’re simply going to knock it. Amazon owns Goodreads. So, Lord solely is aware of what Amazon will resolve to do tomorrow. Yeah. and for me, I don’t like that form of uncertainty. I like understanding that I can talk immediately with the people who I’m making an attempt to succeed in.
BETH BARANY: That’s fantastic. So I feel you made a very nice case, and perhaps collectively we made a very good case why even at this time authors have to have a mailing listing, and ideally a e-newsletter and notify their readers when a brand new ebook comes out. That’s fabulous.
[00:15:40] Keep Tuned for half 2
BETH BARANY: Thanks for listening to half one in all my dialog with Damon Courtney of BookFunnel.
Uh, thanks for additionally bearing with me that for some motive, the video didn’t present my face. So in the event you’re watching this on YouTube, there are some technical points and, uh, I didn’t present up on digital camera for half one.
Additionally this interview happened in 2023. And so now BookFunnel is 9 years previous. And I’m releasing our dialog across the ninth anniversary of BookFunnel. So congratulations to BookFunnel. I’m nonetheless a brilliant consumer of BookFunnel. I actually adore it for rising my electronic mail listing as an creator.
So keep tuned for half two when I’ll proceed my dialog with Damon.
Write lengthy and prosper.
***
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ABOUT BETH BARANY
Beth Barany teaches science fiction and fantasy novelists tips on how to write, edit, and publish their books as a coach, trainer, guide, and developmental editor. She’s an award-winning fantasy and science fiction novelist and runs the podcast, “How To Write The Future.”
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